Alicia Chew

ALICIA CHEW

Also participating: Sherlyn Chew, Alicia’s daughter 
Interviewer: David Joseph-Goteiner 
Interview date: August 22, 2007

ALICIA: Her uncle, my mother’s uncle, found a house there in Oakland. He found two houses - one for  my auntie and one for my grandmother. And then my mother was married and then my father  has a home at 272 and that’s where I was born. I don’t know where my brother and sister were  born, but I know I was born at 272 9th street [in Oakland Chinatown]. And then my father was  worked for Welling, the oil company, for about 20 years until he died, and then the children  move away and that’s why they came home. That’s about 13 years ago.  

DAVID: Where were your parents born? 

ALICIA: My father was born in China and he came when he was about 13 years old and lived with his  uncles, and my mother was born in San Francisco.  

DAVID: Were you born in a hospital or at home? 

ALICIA: 1924, that’s when the beginning that no Chinese should be born at home, should be born at  hospital. And a doctor ordered a room for me to be born. I was supposed to be born in  October and she told my father around August and then she went on vacation, expecting to be  back plenty time before I was born. Right after she left, my mother was nervous and she cried all the time and I was just  born earlier. Then my auntie, my maternal grandmother, was superstitious couldn’t hear the  baby cry, the first sound. She had my auntie receive me and have my grandmother come and  finish the rest. My mother and my father were so happy that my mother didn’t have to go to  the hospital, so they named me Happy. They call me Happy. 

DAVID: What work did your parents do? 

ALICIA: My father used to be a house cook with McMellen. My mother used to bring home sewing. 

DAVID: Did you ever help her with sewing? 

ALICIA: No, oh not sewing. But a lot of times when I was older my cousin has a grocery store and I go  up every Saturday and work and my mother and my auntie they go out and cook lunch and  dinner. And every summer when I was about 13 years old we go to a shrimp store owned by Fung Wang - 10 cents a pound, and that was a lot of money. A lot of children, 13 to 14, at a  long table, and some adults working there too. 

 DAVID: Where was the grocery store? 

ALICIA: It was on Seminary - East Oakland Seminary Meat Market. It was a small place and then it  caught on fire and then they expanded into 14 employees. Meat market grocery store, mostly  it’s canned goods, vegetables, meat department, and canned goods. The shrimp store is in  summer time, 3rd and Broadway 

DAVID: Did you ever visit the shrimp store where your mother worked? 

ALICIA: Very seldom because it was very stuffy and I didn’t like it. 9th and Harrison. My grandmother  was very strict with me because she always felt my father spoiled me and then we were not  allowed to speak English at home and behind her back we spoke English. But one time she  caught me speaking English, so she put a clothespin on my mouth and I was so angry I started  crying and ran out and she spanked me anyway.  

DAVID: Did you grandmother have any other traditions you found strange? 

ALICIA: Oh her traditions, so many superstitions! She was very strict. When we come home we have to  look for her and say we are home. Just to let her know. We have to look for her -sometimes  she’s in the backyard, sometimes she’s in the bedroom, sometimes she’s in the living room; we  have to look for her and say we are home. And my mother, she’s superstitious because she is  the maternal grandmother and she don’t want to cook on the same stove as my mother. She  always have her own stove, small stove with two burners, and then she always finish cooking  and bring the food back to her room 

SHERLYN: Did she ever eat with the family? 

ALICIA: Only on holidays or someone’s birthday or certain holidays she would. 

SHERLYN: I remember Grandma saying something about her mother, her great grandma and I thought  that was really a cruel thing to do. Whenever there was thunder and lightning, everybody had  to get on the floor, their knees kneel down and then confess what bad things you have done.  And have angered the G-ds and heaven and that’s why there’s thunder and lightning. And  that’s when she would get even and you have to confess that you did something bad about her  behind her back. 

SHERLYN: Do you remember that? 

ALICIA: Oh yes, she was very old fashioned. I consider myself very lucky because during Depression  day, then I have three sisters and two brothers and then me and then my sister have to wear  all the hand-me-downs. When it got to my 3rd sister it was worn off, so I always get new  clothes. And then sometimes I like toys my mother couldn’t afford and my father couldn’t  afford and then my cousin they are 20 years old and they had work to do and they also buy it  for me. We don’t have much in expensive toys, you know, just like you play jacks, hopscotch,  jump rope, hide and seek. 

DAVID: Are there any traditions that you still honor today? 

ALICIA: The only holiday I celebrate at home is New Years Day and everybody united, came home. And  the other things like we believe in Buddhism and I promise my husband and my mother in law  that I would light the pump [?] twice a day, morning and night. And I cannot follow, I don’t  understand enough because I don’t understand to carry on. 

DAVID: Tell us about the tradition of binding feet. 

ALICIA: My mother, she told me that she was six years old and then start binding her feet. And then  she don’t remember it hurt, maybe she forgot all about it. Then that day she cannot go out like  she used to follow the grandfather out shopping and things like that because she’s considered  as a young lady, not a baby no more. When they bound her feet they have a party, you know,  and then lady comes bind her feet, they supposed to professional in bounding feet. 

SHERLYN: There were professional feet bounders? Oh what an awful job. So why did great grandma  bind her feet? Why did great grandma bind her feet and force great grand-ma to bind her feet? 

ALICIA: Because grandma was from a poor family. 

SHERLYN: And then grandma is considered more well off? 

ALICIA: Grandpa is the one that earned a lot of money. 

DAVID: Your grandfather? 

ALICIA: My grandfather, I’ve never seen him before, he's the head of the association, Chinese  association and he’s the first one to get a group of opera - all men, no women. The men played  the women’s parts. And then they had a little opera house. And long benches, no chairs, long  benches and then after they perform in San Francisco, and then he bring to different cities, to  Sacramento, to Reno and then come back and then perform again in San Francisco, and then  go back to China. And then grandpa bring another troupe over.  

SHERLYN: When they performed in Reno and Sacramento, there were a lot of Chinese there?  

ALICIA: Yes 

DAVID: Why were there so many Chinese there? 

ALICIA: Well I don’t know 

DAVID: Was he around for the building of the railroads? 

ALICIA: Yes. 

DAVID: Is that when he came? 

ALICIA: No, he’s a foreman at building the railroad. He just worked there for not to much English but  he got around by motion and talking 

DAVID: So he was a spokesperson for the Chinese while building the railroad? 

ALICIA: Yes. One time, he invites policeman, the captain, and sergeant to go celebrate Chinese New  Year and he told them to come 6 o’clock. BANG BANG BANG! The captain just wondered what  happen. They had a lot of policemen go down because they thought it was a town war instead  it was a Chinese New Years which they burn the firecrackers. And then finally understand and  stay for dinner.  

DAVID: Could you say some more about foot binding and what they did to your mother when she got  her feet bound? 

ALICIA: They actually break her feet bone, and then wrapped it up so tight and they leave it for a week  or so before they unbound it, wash it and bind it again until it don’t grow anymore. They make  their own shoes. 

DAVID: What kind of shoes did she wear? You said they made them. 

ALICIA: They made their own shoes. My grandmother used to buy them until she was old enough to  make her own. She considered her feet is the smallest among their group, it’s three inches.  

DAVID: When did she stop binding feet her feet? 

ALICIA: 1919 and my brother was born. He was born in April 1919. And then they received a letter  from my father’s mother telling her she could unbind her feet because China modern lady  already unbind their feet already. So my mother took the idea and unbind them, and my father  was not happy with it. He wants her to keep it. He was afraid that she might walk funny. But after she had bound her feet they had a special from Summer Kaufman [?]. The first pair was  very expensive, 80 dollars. But after that it was 16, after they got more 16 dollars a pair. 16  dollars was a lot of money.  

DAVID: And when you were born did you want your feet bound like your mom’s? 

ALICIA: No, before 1919 in China it was, you know, once they unbinding. My younger auntie bind her  feet because at that time they don’t bind their feet anymore. And she didn’t want her bind and  then that time my grandfather was really sick so they pressure her to bind them.  

DAVID: Did you have siblings? 

ALICIA: Yes, I have four brothers, my mother has four sons and four daughters but there was one girl  that I never seen before because I wasn’t born. And then when I was five years old, my older  brother died, and then when my older sister was married when she was nineteen and she died  when she gave birth, she died. And then we have five left, and two last year… I lost a sister and  she was 89 years old. So I still have two brothers and one sister and myself and the oldest one  now is 90 and my brother one is 85 and one is 80…how do you say 

SHERLYN: Uncle Brian was 1919, so 88. 

ALICIA: 88 and one brother’s 85. 

DAVID: What language did you speak when you were growing up? 

ALICIA: I speak Sangwah. They call it city language, and all the words were from four languages, I don’t  know how to speak it until I got married. My husband’s family spoke it and I learned it that  way. And mostly I speak English.  

DAVID: And when did you learn English? 

ALICIA: Well, I learned English before I went to school, my brother and sister they spoke a lot of English  so I picked it up. And then after, I go to Lincoln School and after school I went to Chinese  school. And I knew my father liked Chinese and wanted us to learn more Chinese, and then  every Saturday I stay behind school, Saturday is 9-12 and then after 12 I’ll stay behind and ask  the teacher to help me read the Chinese newspaper. And my father liked to read about China  so I just picked that section and asked the new words and what I don’t understand so the  teacher can explain it to me. So when I go home, after lunch I go to my father’s “Hey pap, did  you read this?” and I read everything and he thought I was really intelligent. Because I’d  studied it you know, so he always favored me. 

SHERLYN: I don’t think you really told the part about the bound feet? Why did grandma have it done?  

ALICIA: Well because my parent’s father wanted them to have their feet bound because they are from  a rich family and don’t need to work. They got servants and my grandfather opened quite a  few businesses. He has some, like theatre and then he has I guess you call it smoking factory to buy tobacco and people come and roll cigarette, and people sell it for 1 cents for 3. And he  has about 14 employees. That’s why my mother smoked young because they have those little  cigarette and they use water pipe. 

SHERLYN: Grandma was into it. She smoked and drank brandy every night. She said that it was a lady’s  drink and she says that if you have this much brandy every night you won’t have arthritis. She  lived until 96. 

ALICIA: You see [shows water pipe] this use to belong to my grandma. She was a really cool lady. This is  where they smoke and they put tobacco in here. And they use this [tweezers] to put the  tobacco in this hole, and she smoke it from here. And then they put water in here and then  when they smoke it, it filtered. They have like a piece of straw with some kind of a paper and  then they blow it before and then they, I don’t know how they do it but they put the fire and  they burn the tobacco. And that straw, they can’t blow it this way [out the front of the mouth]  they have to use corner of their mouth and Ka [laughter]! It light up and when they don’t use  it, still light, but no fire into the bowl. 

SHERLYN: Her mom, you remember saying something about even though Grandma [smoked?] and she  drank, but when you start to smoke it was not household. 

DAVID: How did you guys get caught? 

ALICIA: One time, we all about 8 years old. Everybody go home and get a cigarette and then we went  to the backyard and try smoking. Then my father come home and saw a lot of smoke and then  he came in and saw us, you know, and he point at me and said YOU COME HOME. And I went  home with him. He made me smoke, he said, “You think you old enough to smoke?” I say, “No,  I just try.” “OK, YOU CAN TRY!” He got six cigarettes and made me finish. I got so sick I never  wanted to smoke again.  

SHERLYN: Who was it who came back and asked? Uncle Brian? He came by and said are you smoking?  

ALICIA: No, Grandma, my brother, my mother would put down a cigarette and he would pick it up and  smoke it and once my grandmother saw him and she said “Brian you smoking?” In Chinese he  said “No” and the smoke came out and everybody laugh. 

SHERLYN: [holds up tiny shoes] You know, these are my grandmother’s, her mother’s embroidery shoes  when her feet were small. It’s very, very detailed with embroidery. Not only on top where you  can see it but on the bottom. And you know all the design and everything is very intricate and if you put this on your palm, her feet were smaller, an adult person, than the size of my palm.  There’s a lot of mixed feelings, not only appreciating but just imagine breaking the bone to fit  into this, you know its kind of hard to imagine.  

And I also mentioned it to my grandmother, why would you want to do that and when I  was growing up there was Twiggy who was about 5’4 and 85 pounds and every time we  wanted to starve ourselves to look like Twiggy, she would say “Why would you want to do  that?” And then the light went off, we all had different concepts of what beauty is.  

And she was very proud of her small feet, when I was growing up I was told that a  person grows with their feet first so if you have big feet you will taller so I thought that my  grandmother had her feet bound and then that my mom/s feet became small so she’s not tall  and she gave birth to me and I have excuse for not being tall. It all started it with my  grandmother getting her feet bound. But you know it’s kinda hard to imagine what the poor  lady went through a lot of pain to be beautiful.  

ALICIA: I was a tomboy when I was a little girl I used to, my sister wouldn’t play with me because I was  much too young, they would take care of me but they wouldn’t play with me so I usually play  with my brother and my cousin, my neighbor, it’s mostly boys. And then I climb tree and fell  down and broke my arm. One time I took off my shoes and socks and instead of riding the slide  I ran down, got a nail through my toe and one of the boys in school, he was from China, he  tore his shirt and tie the knots so my feet don’t bleed so much so he put the nail the blood  shot out into space! They took me to Highland Hospital and then they gave me a tetanus shot  and my feet were swollen and then my grandmother said, “Well, she’ll wait three days and it  won’t go down so I’ll do it my own way.” So she used Chinese garlic with pickle and she used  Chinese brown sugar and then she mashed it up and then she tied it and in two days it went  down. 

DAVID: Where was the park where you hurt yourself?  

ALICIA: There’s an oak tree in front of our house, there were a lot of oak trees in Oakland at the time.  SHERLYN: So which park was it? 

ALICIA: Oh it’s not a park. It’s right on 9th street. Every block has oak tree. 

DAVID: There was a slide though? 

ALICIA: Oh, at the park, Lincoln School Park. We live on 9th street and the park was on 10th street.  DAVID: What other medical remedies did your grandmother use? 

ALICIA: We have diarrhea, she make us eat pickled garlic. It seems to cure. And then like we have  headache, she cut potatoes and put it on our forehead where it hurt. 

SHERLYN: See with her generation, she was more docile than with us. When my grandmother tried to  do that with us it didn’t work as well. She changed with methodology she said if you eat that,  you will be beautiful. All my cousins and I said OK OK and then we would soup or whatever,  you know, or whatever she wanted us to do.  

ALICIA: Up to this day, if I still have a cough, I still go to see the Chinese herb specialist. But I do have a  checkup every year and I follow what my doctor says. 

DAVID: Was it normal for your family to live around you? 

ALICIA: No, we’re a very close family. In fact Oakland was a very close community and you know  everybody, although you don’t know them personally but you know who they are and  everybody seems to know everybody. And my grandmother, she helped a lot, during the  Depression days, she helped a lot of people give birth, like a midwife. Some of them were so  poor she just asked for a quarter, has to be traditional in red paper for good luck.  

And then she’d go out and buy, you know, what the mother should eat for the first  month - you know chicken, and pigs feet and all those traditional dishes, she’ll even buy for  them. Like anybody has family problems, argument, they come look for my grandmother. Her  naming is the Emperess Taoem (?) so they all respect her. 

But to me, I think she’s very unfair, because my brother, when they argue, I’m not  allowed to call my brothers by name, I call them number one brother, number two brother  and sister. I was not allowed to call the name. And then number three brother and number  four brother argue - she always say to me, to number three, “you should let your younger  brother have it, you are the older one.” When it comes to my 4th brother and I having an  argument, or fight for things “What’s the matter, you are a girl, a young girl, you should let  your older brother have it!” So I always told my mom she was very unfair. A lot of times when I  do something wrong I hid under the bed. 

DAVID: Why weren’t you allowed to call your brothers by name? 

ALICIA: I had to respect them, I’m younger so I cannot call them by name, I have to call older koko, gigi (???) if I have a younger sister I call her by name. Being the youngest, I still call them koko. Out  in the open I’ll call them Brian or Luther.  

DAVID: And is this tradition in China? 

ALICIA: Yes. Now in the United States generation - no. Now they call them American names, they don’t  call them Chinese names. I never call my brothers by their Chinese names. 

DAVID: Were you ever angry at your grandmother and mother for carrying on these Chinese traditions  you were not accustomed to? 

ALICIA: No, I never got angry, but I do what I can. Like when I was in New York, I cannot come back for  New Years or her big birthday. I move to New York for a few years because my husband has a  restaurant there and he needs help. That’s where my son was born, in New York. I couldn’t stay  in New York for too long because my oldest daughter Sherlyn, she gets convulsions so the  doctor told me it’s better if I move out, come back to California being that she was born in  California, and felt that the hot weather, she couldn’t take it.  

DAVID: Why don’t talk more about your school experience in Chinatown…Lincoln School, who were you  surrounded by, were they mainly Chinese people or were there also non-Chinese people? 

ALICIA: 99 percent is Chinese, there were about 3 families that were Mexican and about 2 families that  Caucasian. One I was very good friends with, Charles Pluck, and he always teased me, called  me “peewee” and “short subject”. I still see his son Michael Pluck a few times and he’s very  nice. Before you go to 8th grade you go to a middle school for 10th and 11th and then you go  to Oakland High School. In 1939 they changed that you have to stay at Lincoln School until you  go to high school so I went to 2 schools only. Oakland Technical High School. 

DAVID: And what years were you at Lincoln School?  

ALICIA: When I was six years old until fifteen. 

DAVID: And do you remember the actual dates, the actual years? 

ALICIA: 1930 until 1940. 

DAVID: Did you have problems at Lincoln School because you were Chinese? 

ALICIA: No, we all get along, except some of the boys, they fight but not because of race but for games,  you know. They get over it and become friends again. Mostly tease but not maliciously  because I was tiny.  

DAVID: What did you for fun when you were at the Lincoln School? 

ALICIA: We liked to play paddleball and basketball. But when we were young, we don’t run around.  They define a certain place where we two from different teams, two of us push the ball, play  the ball, but we don’t run around. The best subject I had in school was history, and drawing. 

DAVID: You were talking about the Chinese school. 

ALICIA: I went to Chinese school when I was 10 years old, at 8th street at Presbyterian Church. We paid  25 cents a month and that’s what they call, not tuition - it’s for cleaning up and then, that’s all we could afford at that time, it was during the Depression days. When I was 13, then I start  going to Chinese school, you pay 5 dollars a month. I really enjoyed it. 

DAVID: What did you study at the Chinese school? 

ALICIA: History, mostly history, and we had to memorize a lot. They taught how to compose poem and  talked about the Three Kingdoms during wartime. It’s very interesting. 

DAVID: As you transitioned from Lincoln School to Oakland Tech, what changes did you see? 

ALICIA: A lot. I went to high school the first week, I really didn’t like it because everybody there was so  tall and in a different place, everything is so big and strange! And the first day of school, this  boy about 5’5’’ and I was not even 4’10 ½ and he looked at me and said, “Hey, you looking for  your Mommy?” and I got so angry. And then when we had class, he was in my biology class,  and he kept teasing me “short subject” and said, “Did you find your Mommy yet?” But when  report cards came out, he got D and I got a B. I said, “Do you need any help, sonny boy?”  Hehe [laughter]. I got back at him.  

DAVID: Besides what you studied in English school and Chinese school, what were the differences  between them? 

ALICIA: American school I liked because I knew that if I studied hard in it, I could get a job working in  an office. I liked typing, biology, sewing and things like that. In Chinese school, you learned  about your own heritage, like the background, like teaching you what village you were from,  the customs in our village, and things like that. And learning how to write the characters. I’m  glad I did go because when my father went back to China, I was the only one that wrote to him  and had a correspondence back and forth. And then after he passed away in 1952, then ever  since then, I didn’t write and I forgot most of the characters, how to write. I could still read,  recognize some of the characters, but I just don’t write anymore. 

DAVID: How did you adjust to the changes at Oakland Tech? Did you do anything? 

ALICIA: It took me quite a while because every period you have to change rooms and go to another  group and completely strangers and a lot of different people.  

SHERLYN: At Oakland Tech there were not as many Chinese? 

ALICIA: No. Not as many Chinese, there were all kinds of people.  

SHERLYN: Did a lot of people from Lincoln go on to Oakland Tech? 

ALICIA: No. Yeah, they did go but we didn’t have the same period and that’s where, later on, I made  more friends, Italians, colored people, Japanese, more different people. Less Chinese. 

DAVID: Did you still hang around your Chinese friends? 

ALICIA: Oh yeah. Especially because we continue to meet every three months, we went off to  luncheons. Even up to now. 

DAVID: At Oakland Tech, did you experience any discrimination? 

ALICIA: Yes, I did. 

DAVID: Do you think it was because there were more different races? 

ALICIA: Yes. They hang around their group and a lot of times, you just couldn’t communicate with them  too much. They had their own group and sometimes, they would tease, you know, “Tchin,  tchin, Chinaman.” “Kong” or (hong?) Things like that. It took a few months before I enjoyed  school. But I found the teachers were very good. The teachers showed no discrimination. 

DAVID: How did you deal with the discrimination? You said you liked school after a few months, but  what did you do? 

ALICIA: Just ignore it.  

DAVID: Did they leave you alone? 

ALICIA: Yeah.  

DAVID: Did you ever feel ashamed to be Chinese? 

ALICIA: No. No. I was never ashamed. When they called me [names], I just ignored them. DAVID: Did you ever want to be American? 

ALICIA: I AM American. 

DAVID: At Oakland Tech, did you have dreams of going to college and at that time, was it acceptable  for you to have those dreams? 

ALICIA: I was hoping to go to college, but I knew the chances were slim, because we were not rich, but  I did go to UC Berkeley Extension class and took Mandarin. That’s about it. But it’s lucky because when I graduated high school, I got to work at the Legal Supply Depot. That was  during wartime. We were lucky that we got a job.  

DAVID: Why did you want to learn Mandarin? 

ALICIA: Because during wartime, there were quite a few soldiers from China and then they couldn’t  speak too much English and the commander that I worked with, Commander Bayshore (?)  asked me, Do I know Chinese and then I said yes. He wanted the soldiers to communicate with  me, but we spoke different dialects of Chinese. I didn’t know Mandarin at that time. They  couldn’t speak Cantonese. So at that time, I felt that I should learn Mandarin. 

DAVID: How did the Depression affect your family and how did it affect Chinatown? 

ALICIA: Everyone, well, a lot of people were on welfare. We were on welfare during the Depression  time. I saw people living outside on the street, like homeless people, hungry people and they  have big concrete things and they sleep inside long round tubes. It was terrible. 

DAVID: How did World War II affect your family? 

ALICIA: Tremendously. December 7 was very frightening to us and then when President Roosevelt  declared war, we all felt sad. We didn’t even celebrate Christmas that year, nobody did, my  neighbors didn’t, we didn’t. Ever since then, all the holidays that the Chinese usually  celebrated, we did not and still don’t celebrate like we did before.  

SHERLYN: Wasn’t the wartime when your brothers or cousins were drafted? 

ALICIA: Yeah. My brothers were drafted and my cousins. My auntie had thirteen children and they lived  in a fourplex house and both of us lived upstairs and then my father fixed it in the backyard so  we didn’t have to go out and come back through the main door. We just went through the  back door without going downstairs or upstairs. And then when the war began, all my cousins  were drafted and very dramatic change.  

SHERLYN: I think that Grandma said it was very noticeable at the dinner table. You used to eat dinner  with 30 people and all of a sudden, it was down to ten because there were a lot of males in the  family. And she had thirteen cousins, not to forget her own family and the friends. And all of a  sudden, there were only ten people for dinner and they were all females and everyone had left  for the war. 

DAVID: How did that affect Chinatown when you went outside? 

ALICIA: It was quiet. They were not so sociable, like something was bothering them. Then they don’t  talk that much.  

SHERLYN: Didn’t you say that at that time, when the war broke out, that the products from China were  very limited? 

ALICIA: Yeah. There was no more. A lot of Chinese food export and import. A lot of food came from  China and they didn’t have it anymore and when they did, the prices were very high. Like  oyster sauce, it was 70 cents a bottle and during wartime, it was 7 dollars and 50 cents a  bottle. And they had three left. I remember when I went to Naval Supply Depot and then  worked and then my first paycheck I gave to my father. And he asked me, “What do you want  for dinner?” And stupid me, I said I sure miss oyster sauce. And so he went out and he bought  one and the grocery man said to my father, “You’re crazy. That’s $7.50.” And my father said,  “My daughter brought home her first pay check and she likes it, I’m going to buy it for her.”  Whole Chinatown knew that my father bought oyster sauce. They thought he was crazy,  buying it for the daughter and not for the son. So it was the talk of the town.  

DAVID: Your first pay check, what job were you working at? 

ALICIA: Navy Supply Deport and it about $125 a month.  

DAVID: What was it like for your family to be on welfare? 

ALICIA: I was too young to feel anything. I just know that we got food to eat. It was mostly, I remember,  cheese, a lot of flour, butter, and canned goods. 

DAVID: Were there any benefits of the war? 

ALICIA: Yes. Before the war, the Chinese people, the Oriental people, couldn’t find jobs in any  department stores run by Caucasians. They only worked with their own people that had stores,  like my uncle had a grocery store. And some people had restaurants. But during the war, we all  had the opportunity to work and then after the war, we still got Caucasian jobs to do and I  worked for Navy Supply Depot and then I worked for an Oakland utilities store and then I  didn’t work and started raising a family. I didn’t work until my son was six years old and went  to school. I worked for Roy and James Company (?) and I worked there for 30 years until I  retired. 

DAVID: When did you move out of your family house on Harrison Street? 

ALICIA:I was born there and I moved out when I got married in 1946.  

BREAK 

DAVID: We’re back. What foods and drinks were hard to come by in the Depression? ALICIA: Seasoning, soy sauce… 

SHERLYN: So basically anything from China or what? Was that because the ships were not able to  import? 

ALICIA: Yes. 

DAVID: What was the job availability like during the Depression in Chinatown? SHERLYN: Did people find work easily? 

ALICIA: No, very hard. That’s why there were only three Chinese grocery stores. Mostly, it’s their own  people, the own relatives. There was one shoe store, that’s all I remember. There were like  lottery, game by lottery and that’s about…not much was going on that I know. 

DAVID: So there weren’t many businesses? What did people do all day during the Depression? 

ALICIA: I know my father worked in a restaurant. It’s not really a restaurant, it’s like a bar and then they  tell my father he don’t have to pay rent but he get wages. Whatever he cook and sell, we  would gain like that. And my father was helping out: I wouldn’t say earn a lot of money but  keeping busy. I think after that, he recommend that quite a few friends do the same thing.  Ladies, mostly sewing factory. 

DAVID: Was it safe for you to go out day and night?  

ALICIA: Very safe. 

SHERLYN: During the time of Depression. 

ALICIA: Yes. I remember my brother he did go to movies. They don’t even carry key. The last one come  home would lock the door. No robbery, nothing.  

DAVID: Why was there no crime in Chinatown? Was crime around outside of Chinatown? 

ALICIA: Well, I remember when I small, I was scared like Lindbergh’s son was kidnapped. That was not  in Chinatown but affected us. People in Chinatown talk about it.  

SHERLYN: Were you guys scared and how did you deal with it? 

ALICIALICIA: Sad and frightened. 

DAVID: Do you remember how the Lindbergh kidnapping affected Chinatown? 

ALICIA: Everybody was talking about it and hoping that they would find the baby.  

DAVID: What were the demographics when you were a child and how did they change? How did the  changes in Chinatown affect your life? 

SHERLYN: Where would you draw the line? Was 9th street where you drew the line? Where did it start  and where did it end? 

ALICIA: The neighborhood from 5th street to 11th street and from Madison or Fallon up to Broadway,  and that’s where it ends 

DAVID: And did it get bigger as you grew up?  

ALICIA: Practically. Then I was away and then when I came back it changed a lot. The houses got bigger  and more new buildings - a lot of condominiums and a lot of restaurants. Before we didn’t  have any jewelry stores, had to go to San Francisco to buy jewelry. Now there’s about seven and a bank, we don’t have bank, only one Bank of America at 13th street. And now we have  about eight banks in Chinatown. A lot of restaurant and grocery stores. Every day, especially  weekend, from 9 o’clock to 6 o’clock it’s crowded in Chinatown. 

DAVID: How did it change your life: did it affect you when things changed? 

ALICIA: I like it a lot. A lot of new buildings and restaurants and life seems to be more convenient, and  people seem happier and not that much worry. Everybody seems to be able to afford to go out  to eat, especially for dim-sum. You had to stand in line, you had to wait for your number to be  called – before, no! Before when we go in, there’s always a seat right away and not anymore.  You really know the restaurant owner but you still have to wait in line!  

DAVID: Why do you think Chinatown grew so much? 

ALICIA: Because a lot of immigrants and then a lot of people from Shanghai come to Chinatown.  Japanese, Korean, all those bring a lot of business. 

DAVID: Why do you think they came over to Oakland’s Chinatown?  

ALICIA: They, my neighbors tell me, they already like the weather. They said San Francisco is getting too  crowded.  

SHERLYN: No, San Francisco is getting too expensive! 

ALICIA: Expensive and crowded! 

DAVID:(To Sherlyn) What was your favorite part of growing up on Oakland’s Chinatown? 

SHERLYN: Well, at that time when I grew up in Oakland Chinatown it was a pretty much very close-knit  community. We lived on Fallon Street and there was no such thing as Laney College. Across  from Fallon was Gilman Steel, you can hear them pound, working away even into the night.  And I was within walking distance of Lincoln School. And after Lincoln School, I went to the  Chinese Community Center, another Chinese school. And I felt that within walking distance  everything was accessible. So I kinda liked that. Because of that, it becomes like everybody  knows everybody.  

DAVID: You like to disagree with your mother… 

SHERLYN: No, no, no. It not that I like to disagree with my mother. It’s just that I have a different point  of view than her. 

DAVID: Let’s talk about your different point of view. I guess Alicia was talking about her different  experience in Oakland Chinatown and her experience at Lincoln School…How do you think  that’s changed since you came around? 

SHERLYN: I still believe that Lincoln School is a very good school. I wish it was a little more diverse. It is  92 percent Asian. Lincoln School was a very high math score and the parents are very  cooperative and want the students to achieve. They work as hard as they can with the teacher  to ensure that. Even though it is considered one of the flat land schools, academically the  school is doing very well.  

When I talk about diversity I think that we can learn a lot from each other’s culture. I  would like for Lincoln School to be a little more diverse so that when people go on to middle  school or go on to high school they wouldn’t have such an adjustment to make such as my  mom when she left Lincoln School and went to Oakland Tech. She didn’t enjoy school in the  beginning and didn’t feel like she really belonged there. She had a feeling of uneasiness. If we  were conditioned very young to face the real world as it is, the adjustment wouldn’t be as  difficult. 

DAVID: So, these few questions are directed to both of you. Do you have ant funny stories to tell about  Chinatown? 

ALICIA: These old ladies like to gossip and stand in a corner and talk a lot. Every time some young girls  passed by they say, “I know a boy about their age. Maybe you could match them up.” Things  like that. I think that was very funny.  

SHERLYN: I think that living the Chinatown lifestyle and at the same time being in America, a lot of  humor comes around because not being able to use or understand words and mixed sentences  up, you know. For example, they speak the fourth district dialect and they put a little English  into it. They said, “Take this can and give it to that man” [Chinese speaking] Now which part is  English and which is Chinese? Yet at the same time they’re using English in the words “can”  and “man” but they’re speaking a village dialect also. Comes out kinda funny, you know. That’s  just one example but you know, it’s a Chinatown language.  

DAVID: How about sad stories? 

ALICIA: There was one sad story. One of my close girlfriends, since at Lincoln School, and her father  was shot by a relative over money. A rumor came which I heard, that he was killed and I was  sad. We didn’t have a telephone in a house so it was kinda late, I couldn’t go out, I was very  sad. I couldn’t sleep that night. And then the first thing in the morning, I ran over to her house  but they were in the hospital. For 2 days, I thought he was dead until the 3rd day when I saw  and she said, “He’s alright.” The bullet embedded somewhere so that they can’t take it away  but that he would be alright. Then, the saddest time of my life. 

DAVID: How did people communicate in Chinatown back when there weren’t telephones? 

ALICIA: They usually go to your house or some people with money got telephone. My auntie, they had  a telephone. I was not allowed to use it. My father called from out of town, we go over and  listening. Calling out, I would not do this.  

DAVID: What do think about telephones? 

ALICIA: Oh, wonderful! I like it because when I want to talk to my children, I call them.  

SHERLYN: It took her six weeks to figure out. I was paying for cell phone for six weeks. The first time,  she didn’t turn it on. The second time, she didn’t know it had to be charged. The third time,  she heard a phone ring but she didn’t know it was hers. The fourth time, she knew it was hers  and remembered to bring it, but she didn’t know which button to press to turn it on and say  hello. It took six weeks for her to learn how to use a cell phone! And then when we say “Mom,  turn it on” cause when we want to find you. She only turns it on when she wants to find us.  Not the other way around. 

DAVID: When you look back, what makes you feel nostalgic about Chinatown? 

ALICIA: Oh…Chinese New Year. I enjoy Chinese New Year. For eight days there’s always noise,  firecrackers, you smell the delicious food, you walk around. For Chinese New Year, we go to  different houses and I remember mother’s table full of food. People come and we serve things  to him. Those were the days but now we don’t do that anymore. Not only our family, every family. I remember when I was in second grade, there’s this boy named Horace Wong and his  father got her a little lion and then he brought it to school.  

SHERLYN: Not a really one (tiger), right? 

ALICIA: A small, Chinese lion. Played around. Our principal, Mr.Sneider, saw it and then he thought it  was very cute. He suggest that we go to each room, tell Horace to go to each room and  demonstrate it. So Horace, me, and another girl to be the house. To be the house, we stand on  to a chair and hold onto a stick and the stick has a string tied to a little red package. Inside was  a dime. Then I hold it and pretend it was a house. So they do the dance about 3 times before  he can get the money. Then, we go to each room and dance. So every time when New Year  come, I always have that sweet memory come up to now. 

SHERLYN: She has sweet memories. I remember when I was at Lincoln School and I was in second  grade. I always wanted to get extra credit, I was one of these red-hots, ready for school. It was  near election time and they wanted us to pass out materials to the neighborhood, certain kind  of bond. If your parents can volunteer and help pass these things out so that measure  whatever will pass, it will benefit the schools. I volunteer my mom, and she took me and we  walked for 3 hours around the neighborhood passing out these flyers. Talk about this measure  bond or whatever. I never volunteer again. I mean to take a 7 year old to walk for 3 hours. 

ALICIA: She volunteered me in a lot of things. In China school, she volunteered me to join the singing  club to make me dance.  

SHERLYN: You enjoyed it. 

ALICIA: No, I did not! 

DAVID: Can I ask you question? Why did they stop celebrating the Chinese New Year when it seemed  so popular? 

ALICIA: Because after the war, everybody just stopped. They automatically lost that enthusiasm about  it during wartime and then after that, we didn’t go back to old customs. 

DAVID: What happened when wartime came around and it was supposed to be Chinese New Year? ALICIA: We didn’t celebrate 

DAVID: Were you mad about that? 

ALICIA: No, we were worried about it. I spend more time writing to my brother and my friends. We  didn’t mention anything about it because we didn’t celebrate. Telling them what was going on and hoping they would be back soon. I celebrate by going to the Family Association, for those  holidays but not doing it at home. That’s Chinese New Years. 

DAVID: Do you see Chinatown as an important part of Oakland? 

ALICIA: Yes. 

SHERLYN: She sees it as the MOST important part of Oakland! 

DAVID: Why? 

SHERLYN: Lively 

ALICIA: Lively! And I enjoy eating Chinese food and I know everybody around. 

SHERLYN: Hustle bustle. And she doesn’t drive. You can double-park and triple-park and she doesn’t  care. Now if you were driving, and you had to come to Chinatown, either you know how to  find a parking space by some luck or you’re going to have to put up with the traffic and people  J-walking, not only double-parking but triple-parking. Then you have a different perception of  Chinatown.  

DAVID: What would you like people to know about Chinatown? 

ALICIA: I like to bring people to luncheon, tea lunch. I like to show them jewelry store, before we didn’t  have jewelry stores. 

SHERLYN: Oakland definitely has better weather than San Francisco. I think that the hustling-bustling of  Chinatown shows that it’s a very important part of Oakland. I like the convenience of going to  restaurants and having good food for very reasonable prices. Everything is much cheaper and  convenient. For example, for my mother who lives in Chinatown, my father was cooking, he  told her to go downstairs to get cilantro and onions while he was cooking the fish. She can turn  left or right to get that and she’ll home before the fish is done. Now, it doesn’t get anymore  fresh and convenient then that. There are other things that I like to think of Chinatown. It’s a  safe place. I don’t feel unsafe walking in Chinatown. 

DAVID: What makes Chinatown…Chinatown? 

ALICIA: The food. They have different food from different village. Like my village, they don’t have this  but the other village, they bring it in and I find it very learning things everyday. Something new,  now the Vietnamese brought their things over, it’s right in the heart of Chinatown. 

SHERLYN: Chinatown is a very unique place. There are a lot of Chinese, a lot of Asian who continue to  practice their traditions and culture. Food is a very important element. Cultural activities,  things like the [Oakland] Asian Cultural Center, that continues to promote and preserve the  culture. Also to allow it, like the auditorium we have here, to allow others to view it. Quality  performing arts, I like it very important about Chinatown. They breed into each other. They  perpetuate the parents communicating on how to bring up children in America, that still carry  a lot of the traditions and values that are important to succeed in America that have a Chinese  philosophy. I don’t know if that makes any sense. 

DAVID: Can you give some examples? 

SHERLYN: The family unit is very important to the Chinese family. Having dinner at home, with the  family, really brings the family together and that is very much practiced in a Chinese traditional  family. Whether if you’re a CEO and out working for corporate America, you may not be  allowed that kind of luxury, you’re out having cocktails with your co-workers, whereas they  have people living in Chinatown, who may not be as well off, but they are rewarded in other  ways. Family life is very important. And a constant reminding that you must work hard in  school. It is said over and over and over again.  

DAVID: Why is school so important? 

SHERLYN: From an educator’s point of view, it is very important. Because I think that you teach at  school not only the book smarts and the survival skills, but you’re trying to ask children and  provoke them to be very thoughtful of what they’re doing. You have to really show them the  way through your life experience and tell them consequences and the result of hard work. I do  all these things. Some people learn better in groups and some more individualized attention.  They get the individualized attention at home but it goes hand in hand with what is taught at  school. 

DAVID: These questions are for both of you to answer. What do you think is the most important overall  story to tell to future generations about your history and Oakland’s Chinatown’s challenges,  endurance and triumphs during the last century? Is there anything particular that most people  don’t know? 

SHERLYN: Well, there was a time, and I remember it very clearly, that around the Lake [Merritt], real  estate was not allowed for the Chinese to purchase. And now as people become more  educated and more aware and so on, I think that area is now called China Hill and one time  when we were talking about racism, with younger children, about Martin Luther King and  about China Hill, the Chinese children who never understood the word “racism” because they  had never experienced it. They couldn’t understand why a person being of a different skin  color, why people would react negatively to them. In a way, that’s good because they hadn’t  experienced it. That means that society has improved. I think that was one thing that I saw some changes. Because I am very verbal about my feelings and very honest to myself, I come  across as a person if I run into racism, I would put you in your place. Not like my sweet mother. 

ALICIA: I noticed there’s a lot of inter-racial marriages. And to me, I think that’s good.  

SHERLYN: I do too. But you said when people were being prejudiced in your high school, you sort of  just let it go. And not hold a grudge, that’s not me. And she taught me to do that. 

DAVID: You were taught not to speak out? 

SHERLYN: Yea. 

ALICIA: That’s true, yea. 

SHERLYN: Her line was, “If you don’t have something nice to say, don’t say it.”  ALICIA: And I followed that tradition. 

DAVID: Are you O.K with your daughter being so outspoken.  

ALICIA: No, that’s their generation. I’m not as straight, well my mother’s not so straight, you know  she’ll very kind and everybody liked her. But my grandmother was always after me, she felt  that my father spoilt me too much. Then she was always saying, “You never know what’s  coming on tomorrow, so make the best of today. You study hard!” Things like that. You only  speak when you’re spoken to. That’s what I was taught. I never talk back. 

SHERLYN: I carry a lot of what she has taught me. However, I am Chinese when it’s convenient to be  Chinese and I’m American when it’s convenient to be American. I can straddle the fence, work  things to my advantage.  

DAVID: Why did you both want to participate in this project? 

SHERLYN: Because I love Anne. 

ALICIA: Because she asked me to [motions to Sherlyn]. 

DAVID: Is there something you wanted to gain from this project? 

SHERLYN: Well, when I was first approached about this project, they wanted to know the history of  Chinatown. I figured that someone like my mom, respectfully being someone in her eighties,  would have a lot to say about that. So I said, “I know the ideal candidate.” That’s why she came to do this. I’m just a sideline. I came here to keep her company or correct to say what I want her to say! 

ALICIA: I’m very self-conscious of my English, that’s why I didn’t want to come. DAVID: Why is the history of Chinatown important to preserve? 

ALICIA: The Chinese people, they have a lot of philosophy things and the way others talk. I think it’s a  good thing to teach the children too. The closeness, to see a lot of these Chinese people from  different villages and learn more from that. Not only just in our family but others people’s  family too. I think in Chinatown, you learn a lot. 

SHERLYN: I think it’s important because it’s part of culture, it’s part of our heritage. For us, it’s our  roots. I was born in Chinatown. My mother was born in Oakland. I think that everybody can  learn something from each other. It’s for the same reason when I drove down to Solvang, a  town full of Danish customs, it was a charming place. A place to try their food and see them  wear their clothes. It would be boring if everybody was like everybody else. Some days I feel  like a pizza and some days I feel like Chinese food.  

DAVID: Why is it important to remember your heritage? 

ALICIA: I think it’s important for everyone to remember their own heritage.  

SHERLYN: I think that that is true. What we are is where we came from and our conditioning. From our  background. Why we tick, why we use chopsticks. I think all that adds to who we are. We  identify who we are. 

ALICIA: My mother, she taught me that wherever I go, I should behave myself. We’re Buddhist but we  have to enter a Church. We go in and do their customs. That’s how we learn and that’s what I  teach my children too. Respect for every surrounding, for every people. What people believe  in – never criticize it.  

SHERLYN: It’s the cards you were dealt it. I’m Chinese American. However, wherever I travel, and I’ve  done a lot of travel, I feel that I’ve taken something from their culture and it’s a part of me.  Whether I went to Italy or wherever, I feel all of those places are a part of me. One time we  were asked to identity ourselves, they were saying that I’m Chinese from Hong-Kong, I’m  Chinese from China and so on. And one said, “I’m American born Chinese.” And it came to me,  “I’m a sophisticated woman of the world.” Everybody just laughed because with all the  traveling done, I felt like I had left a part of myself in that country. As much as I have taken  from that country to a part of me, and that’s how I see it.  

DAVID: How do you think Chinese people get their identity? These young generations are changing  from you, your daughter is changing and her kids are changing. Why do you think Chinese  generations keep changing and where is their new identity coming from? 

ALICIA: From education. They, like my grandson, he hardly speaks Chinese. He don’t learn Chinese, we  don’t force him to. But, things that he believes, like “Make the best of today, study” he  believes things like that. He won’t be more American and it’s through education.  

SHERLYN: Also through living it, you can’t escape it. When you’re old enough to eat on your own,  you’re handed a pair of chopsticks and you have to figure it out on your own; that’s how it  went. You live it, you hear it, and we do have an advantage because when I am around people  who aren’t Chinese, I can adapt very well. However, when I’m in China, I do abide by their  philosophy and I make sure I do not offend them. 

DAVID: Why do you use chopsticks? 

SHERLYN: I don’t know, I think the reason I use chopsticks is because it’s the way I was brought up. I  find it much more convenient then to use a knife and fork. Because you have to pick up your  knife and fork and work it at the table where as the food is already prepared on the table and  you can eat very daintily and pick up a small piece.  

DAVID: How about if there was a whole chicken and you needed to cut it? 

SHERLYN: It’s already been cut. That’s why we use chopsticks.  

ALICIA: I like to use chopsticks because when I go out to dinner. I worry if I’m using the right one or  doing it the right way. I feel more comfortable with chopsticks.  

DAVID: Would you like to add anything? 

SHERLYN: Thank you for having us. 

ALICIA: Yes, was fun. 

SHERLYN: You notice there was a difference of opinions between the two of us and that’s what you call  different generations. Like when you ask her who benefits from the war, there’s a Chinese  saying that in order to have a person become a general, there are 10,000 bones lying on the  ground. Nobody benefits from a war. The one who loses less is considered the winner. There’s  no monetary value to be placed on human life: remember that.  

DAVID: Tell us about the backdrop. [Alicia and Sherlyn had brought in some costumes, which we hung  up behind them to act as a backdrop for the interview.] 

SHERLYN: These are Chinese opera costumes for the backdrop. This one over here, the red one, is worn  by an emperor or a prince. The other ones here, this is worn by a young lady and the skirt that  is yellow goes with the green outfit. Because it has long white sleeves, it usually belongs to a  lady who a mistress. She doesn’t have to work so therefore she can have the long white  sleeves. If she has short sleeves, she might be a maid. So it would be people in this costume  who have their feet bound.  

DAVID: Where did you get these costumes? 

SHERLYN: I got them from China. I used to teach at Lincoln School and the entire student body was  involved in learning Chinese opera and Chinese instruments.  

DAVID: Thank you very much. 

A/SHERLYN: Thank you! 

POST-INTERVIEW
INTERVIEW SUBJECT: David Joseph-Goteiner 
INTERVIEWER: Angela Zusman 
INTERVIEW DATE: August 22, 2007 
INTERVIEW LOCATION: Oakland Asian Cultural Center 

ANGELA: My name is Angela Zuzman and I am interviewing David Joseph-Goteiner on August 22nd , 2007  at the Oakland Asian Cultural Center. David just finished his interview of Sherlyn Chew and her  mother Alicia Betty Chew. So David, what did you learn in the interview today? 

DAVID: So much. I gotta say, it was probably the best experience I’ve had in a while, with interviewing  people, listening to people. When they were talking directly to me I could really understand  what they saying. They said it clearly and it was really great 

ANGELA: So what specifically did you learn? 

DAVID: Well, the lessons for the generations was really inspirational. That’s just the word for it. She just  had so much to say about discrimination. There were personal stories behind it. And when she  said it to me it could go for anyone really. When she said it to me, I really felt like it was towards  me and I could really understand what she was saying. And it was directed at me so it had a  bigger impact. 

ANGELA: Can you give me an example of one of the lessons that really impacted you? 

DAVID: There are so many. When I get the transcript I’m going to look it over and really think about it  but education in general and the emphasis that Chinese culture has on education. And it’s  important to them. Education is really important and I understand that but the way she put it  and the effort she put into looking at me and explaining how important it really was…I was  taken aback. Feeling so strongly about something, she was a teacher and she now has this  opera: teaching children was her job and she was also a child. It’s just, crazy.  

ANGELA: So it hit you? 

DAVID: Really hit me. The discrimination, everything they said. The sad moments and the funny  moments, I thought it was funny. I don’t know I just, thought it was really fun to listen to them  speak.  

ANGELA: How did you like the mother-daughter interaction? 

DAVID: It was great because Sherlyn really helped me. She was kind of on my side, like the help I didn’t  have. So, she was pushing her mom. She already knew most of the…well she said she had  learned some new stories which was surprising. She knew most of the stories so when Ms. Chew  was holding things back, she knew and asked again --something that I wouldn’t have done  because I don’t really know what the extent of her story was. So that was really helpful. Also,  the arguing was fun to watch. But she said it wasn’t arguing, it was clarification. I thought it was  cute, that was fun.  

ANGELA: What does your experience today relate to why you joined this project? 

DAVID: It’s the reasons, just in total. Hearing them speak about it was my goal. Just to help me tell my  own personal history and the way they said it, the accuracy of everything they said and the way  they told it and the emphasis was exactly the way I want to tell my stories when I’m growing up.  The issues they were talking about were so important and I hadn’t thought about them.  

ANGELA: Like what? 

DAVID: Like education and discrimination, and taking what you’re given and not doing anything with it  and taking things for granted in general. That was all something I’d thought about but every time the issues come back, you think about it more and more. I’d forgetten about it. When you  hear them again, you really start to think. That’s what I’m doing right now. It’s all in my head,  kind of zooming around. That’s what I want people to hear. When I tell my stories to my  grandchildren or when I write it down, which I probably will do, after this experience, I want  them to feel these things that I’m feeling right now. From the experience of listening to me they  can start thinking about their own ideas. That’s what I want to do with my personal stories. 

ANGELA: So what steps will you take now to prepare you to do that when you’re older? 

DAVID: I could follow Sherlyn around:I think that’s be really fun. She has an interesting life, I can already  tell. I can listen to her talk all day and Ms.Chew as well. What I will do is think about it more, I  don’t know that I’ll think about it to the extent that I’ll have these opinions set out for me fifty  or sixty years from now but I’ll think about it so that, and write it down as well. Tonight I’ll write  something down and keep it. One sad thing about Ms.Chew is that everything she had was lost.  So you have to keep these things that remind you of the past. Your history and the history of the  world. That’s what I’ll do as well. 

ANGELA: Of all the people participating in this project, most of them are Asian. You are the only youth  interviewer who is not Asian. As a non-Asian, how is this Chinatown history important to you? 

DAVID: Because it’s not my own. If it was my own culture, I’m not sure if it’d be as exciting because I’d  heard it so many times before. This is the first time I’ve heard it. I’ve come to respect these immigrants and these kids of immigrants because they had a rough life and they were on  welfare. These are the rough times of America. They think now is rough? We look then and it seems ten times worse. The emphasis on  the lessons they’ve learned and everything, it’s the magnitude of the problems they had back  then. The history seems so much more complicated than my own and the story of my people.  My family didn’t have…I guess I didn’t know about my family during the Great Depression either. It’s American history but it’s from the immigrants’ point of view. You hear about it from: ”oh there are white people dying on the streets” and then you hear about what happened in  Chinatown which is also not even America. That’s what’s so interesting about Chinatown, it’s its  own culture. You might as well go to China because I actually went to China this summer and it  resembles San Francisco and Oakland’s Chinatown. The people here are amazing. You could  probably go out on the street and if you spoke Chinese, you could meet the old people outside  in the Plaza area and talk to them and they’d probably have interesting stories as well. What’s so interesting about documenting Oakland’s Chinatown rather than my own  history is that there are so many people that have more stories and more personal stories. They  think about it more. It’s so much more interesting for me. 

ANGELA: After spending time in Chinatown and participating in the project, do you feel more of a  connection between you and Chinese people? 

DAVID: Absolutely, I feel like I’ve been exposed. You could say I’ve been exposed to Chinese and Asian  people. Of course there are people at my school who are Chinese and Asian, it’s just like, these  old people who have so much to tell. I feel connected to them. If I feel connected to them, then  I’ll start talking to the younger generation. I feel a lot more connected. 

ANGELA: Would you recommend this type of experience for other students? 

DAVID: Yeah, absolutely. I mean it’s really fun. This interview was amazing. The last interview was fun,  but this one was ten times as fun. I guess it was because I was conducting the interview and I  was really in the moment. At first I really couldn’t think of a question. Then I started thinking,  there are so many questions to ask! By the end of it, I could have stayed here an hour longer  asking them small questions. I still would have been amused and had a lot of fun. As I got into  this more, as I put more into it, I got a lot more back. Thinking of questions during the interview  was helping my own personal interests. If I was reading questions off the norm sheet, I probably  wouldn’t have gotten much out of it because there are questions that are relevant to  Chinatown’s history but not to my own views and interests. The history I’m trying to discover  about.  

ANGELA: Is there any messages that you’d like to give to Sherlyn and her mom and other elders who  have been participating in this project? 

DAVID: You guys are cool. You guys are cool. Your kids are lucky to have you and your grandkids. Don’t  hesitate to tell these stories to them too, as you were telling them to me. You should tell them  to your kids twice over, four times over, until they realize what I’m realizing right now. Don’t  hold back your stories, don’t think they’re stupid to tell your grandchildren or children because  they really aren’t and they will make an impact on people.